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	<title>Comments on: Wall Street Journal article</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/</link>
	<description>A blog about mental health</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:55:48 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: June</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>June</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-129</guid>
		<description>Maybe now Spitzer will get a dose of his own medicine, what with endangering the health and well-being of prostitutes and civil society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe now Spitzer will get a dose of his own medicine, what with endangering the health and well-being of prostitutes and civil society.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Day</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 15:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-128</guid>
		<description>Gabriel Hadd wrote a very well reasoned and excellent
analysis of what can go on in the field of mental health.

Thanks for writing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabriel Hadd wrote a very well reasoned and excellent<br />
analysis of what can go on in the field of mental health.</p>
<p>Thanks for writing it.</p>
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		<title>By: gabriel hadd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>gabriel hadd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Thanks for taking an interest in this article and for contributing to a debate on the subject of forced psychiatric treatment.  In my experience this is a complicated and contenious issue that people always seem to have very strong opinions about, so it is sometimes unpleasant for people to consider veiws that may be different from their own.  I am always grateful for an opportunity to engage in balanced dialog or debate.

In response to the post made by Phillip Dawdy I would like to say that in my experience the system of checks and balances does not work.

To establish grounds of dangerousness, the petitioner gave an account of an incident in which assualt (a verbal threat)occurred.  This is a criminal accusation, but the cases are handled through the civil courts.  No investigation is made.  An accusation alone can get you hauled-off by police to the psych ward.  You may expect to see a public defender for about five to ten minutes before you set foot in a court room.  You are not informed of any of the contents of the petition while you are locked up for three or more days leading to your ten to twenty minute hearing.  If you at anytime in the ordeal leading up to your hearing give any sign of confusion, aggitation or resistence, you can expect to be forcibly (violently) administered a syringe of Haldol and Ativan by two to five orderlies, many of whom are hired on for their size (I&#039;ve gotten to know a few, and a number of them have served jail time).

As for the testimonies of doctors, I have on several occasions had doctors testify whom I had never spoken with prior to the hearing.  Sometimes, I think they just read the charts.

As far as the research data are concerned, I&#039;d have to offer my favorite caveat:  statistics in not a hard-science.  Really.  It&#039;s not.  I&#039;d love to accuse the AMA and APA of cooking the books--the majority of pharmaceutical research is funded by drug companies and it seems that they only publish the results that would move more product.  There have been some wistle-blowers, but it hasn&#039;t garnered the attention that it deserves yet.

With an issue this complicated, I struggle to find a place to start.  I find the FDA to be venal.  I think the courts are abusive.  I&#039;d like to blame the current presidental administration for trying to fear-monger and invent yet another an &quot;enemy with-in&quot; to distract the populace from what they&#039;re really up to.  There are Bush family ties to big-pharma, and (lemme point the finger) many conflicts of interest; Bush has stated that he plans to get 1 in 10 Americans on psych-meds.  I have also found a heart-breaking amount of thinly disguised classist injustice regularly carried out against poor people, especially African-American men.

I&#039;d love to reccomend some reading material.   Michel Foucault is a French philosopher who does (I beleive) an excellent job of framing the clinical psychiatric setting in the context of the history of ideas.  Noam Chompsky&#039;s classic essay &quot;Manufacturing Consent&quot; is a must read.  Robert Whitaker wrote a wonderful book called &quot;Mad In America&quot; that details a pendulating trend in what amounts to severity of corporal punishment of persons labelled with mental illnesses though US history.  And, Dr. Peter Breggin does an excellent job in &quot;Toxic Psychiatry&quot; of providing an over-view of many of the problems with the biopsychiatric model and it&#039;s methods of treatment.

If you&#039;ve got time, try to download a copy of &quot;The Foucault Tribunal.&quot;  It was held at the Free University of Berlin in 1997.  Clover Smith, who&#039;s house I stayed at in Colorado in the Fall of &#039;04, was present, though she didn&#039;t speak.  The arguement against forced psychiatry seems to me to be very clearly presented there, and you&#039;ll get your quotes and sound bites:  &quot;collusion and coercion; fear, fraud and force.&quot;

I&#039;ve been subscribing to &quot;The Nation&quot; this year, and in reading about what they call &quot;the torture complex,&quot; I&#039;m reminded of what I underwent here in Michigan.  They&#039;re both multi-facted issues in which there seems to be human rights and civil rights violations carried out deliberately and systematically.

I count my blessings every day.  My ordeal was dehumanizing, and I&#039;m struggling agaisnt all odds to maintain my dignity in the face of it.  After five years, I was ready to leave the country without a penny.  I was in Mexico a year ago, and I was very ready to give up on this country.  I would strongly encourage every one to engage in rational and balanced discussion of issues.

Thanks,

Gabriel Hadd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for taking an interest in this article and for contributing to a debate on the subject of forced psychiatric treatment.  In my experience this is a complicated and contenious issue that people always seem to have very strong opinions about, so it is sometimes unpleasant for people to consider veiws that may be different from their own.  I am always grateful for an opportunity to engage in balanced dialog or debate.</p>
<p>In response to the post made by Phillip Dawdy I would like to say that in my experience the system of checks and balances does not work.</p>
<p>To establish grounds of dangerousness, the petitioner gave an account of an incident in which assualt (a verbal threat)occurred.  This is a criminal accusation, but the cases are handled through the civil courts.  No investigation is made.  An accusation alone can get you hauled-off by police to the psych ward.  You may expect to see a public defender for about five to ten minutes before you set foot in a court room.  You are not informed of any of the contents of the petition while you are locked up for three or more days leading to your ten to twenty minute hearing.  If you at anytime in the ordeal leading up to your hearing give any sign of confusion, aggitation or resistence, you can expect to be forcibly (violently) administered a syringe of Haldol and Ativan by two to five orderlies, many of whom are hired on for their size (I&#8217;ve gotten to know a few, and a number of them have served jail time).</p>
<p>As for the testimonies of doctors, I have on several occasions had doctors testify whom I had never spoken with prior to the hearing.  Sometimes, I think they just read the charts.</p>
<p>As far as the research data are concerned, I&#8217;d have to offer my favorite caveat:  statistics in not a hard-science.  Really.  It&#8217;s not.  I&#8217;d love to accuse the AMA and APA of cooking the books&#8211;the majority of pharmaceutical research is funded by drug companies and it seems that they only publish the results that would move more product.  There have been some wistle-blowers, but it hasn&#8217;t garnered the attention that it deserves yet.</p>
<p>With an issue this complicated, I struggle to find a place to start.  I find the FDA to be venal.  I think the courts are abusive.  I&#8217;d like to blame the current presidental administration for trying to fear-monger and invent yet another an &#8220;enemy with-in&#8221; to distract the populace from what they&#8217;re really up to.  There are Bush family ties to big-pharma, and (lemme point the finger) many conflicts of interest; Bush has stated that he plans to get 1 in 10 Americans on psych-meds.  I have also found a heart-breaking amount of thinly disguised classist injustice regularly carried out against poor people, especially African-American men.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to reccomend some reading material.   Michel Foucault is a French philosopher who does (I beleive) an excellent job of framing the clinical psychiatric setting in the context of the history of ideas.  Noam Chompsky&#8217;s classic essay &#8220;Manufacturing Consent&#8221; is a must read.  Robert Whitaker wrote a wonderful book called &#8220;Mad In America&#8221; that details a pendulating trend in what amounts to severity of corporal punishment of persons labelled with mental illnesses though US history.  And, Dr. Peter Breggin does an excellent job in &#8220;Toxic Psychiatry&#8221; of providing an over-view of many of the problems with the biopsychiatric model and it&#8217;s methods of treatment.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve got time, try to download a copy of &#8220;The Foucault Tribunal.&#8221;  It was held at the Free University of Berlin in 1997.  Clover Smith, who&#8217;s house I stayed at in Colorado in the Fall of &#8216;04, was present, though she didn&#8217;t speak.  The arguement against forced psychiatry seems to me to be very clearly presented there, and you&#8217;ll get your quotes and sound bites:  &#8220;collusion and coercion; fear, fraud and force.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been subscribing to &#8220;The Nation&#8221; this year, and in reading about what they call &#8220;the torture complex,&#8221; I&#8217;m reminded of what I underwent here in Michigan.  They&#8217;re both multi-facted issues in which there seems to be human rights and civil rights violations carried out deliberately and systematically.</p>
<p>I count my blessings every day.  My ordeal was dehumanizing, and I&#8217;m struggling agaisnt all odds to maintain my dignity in the face of it.  After five years, I was ready to leave the country without a penny.  I was in Mexico a year ago, and I was very ready to give up on this country.  I would strongly encourage every one to engage in rational and balanced discussion of issues.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Gabriel Hadd</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-126</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t help wonder if TAC&#039;s message only achieves two things: 1) Further restrict the rights of mental health consumers and 2) Promote the
misguided belief that persons with a mental illness are inherently violent. This is a belief that has increased over the years despite a
RAND study that mental health consumers are no more violent then non-consumers and other studies which have shown the people with a mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence then
perpetrators of it.

Regardless, the press seems to love focusing on violent acts committed by persons with a mental illness. One need only search on the phrase
&quot;mental illness&quot; on google news, sort by date, and read what is returned.

Regrettably, violence is the trump card of mental illness. The notion of millions of &quot;crazies&quot; running through the streets is catchy but not reality. I have plenty of peers who are disabled by a mental illness and on the whole they are tractable, compliant, and meek. After all, these are considered virtues among too many mental health professionals and the programs they operate. The worst thing a consumer can do is &quot;act-out&quot; (often simply asserting oneself or even gesticulation) which is a term only used to describe the behavior of children and adults with a mental illness.

I drove a guy home this week who was clearly suffering from schizophrenia. He&#039;s on plenty of medication including injectable Haldol (a.k.a. polypharmacy). He told me that when the police come to pick him (a.k.a. outreach) he always resists. Now everyone knows resisting the police is frankly stupid but this is his M.O. They always prevail; he always goes to the hospital but his actions are hardly emblematic of consumers as a whole. His behavior might be understandable, not justifiable, to anyone who has spent time in a psychiatric hospital where care might be limited to the therapeutic milieu, cold turkey smoking cessation, medication, and perhaps a daily session of bingo for ice cream (a.k.a. comprehensive recovery oriented care in accordance with best practices using the team approach.)

I know another consumer who thinks about stopping her medication. To the best of my knowledge she has never committed a violent act on or off her
medication. Medication simply did not provide her with entry to the life portrayed by pharmaceutical companies. She has every right to feel depressed (a.k.a. a sub-optimal functional and symptomatic outcome.)

I&#039;m not saying that medication can&#039;t help. In some cases inspiring stores ensue but no matter how you cut it if the high point of your life is going to the drop-in center or the day program and you have
never been to a party other than one with really large bottles of generic soda and generic potato chips or you have been received the &quot;Prophecy of Doom,&quot; too sick for too long to get any better. No amount of medication is going to hug you when you are cold, encourage you when you feel absolutely hopeless, or befriend you when you are all alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t help wonder if TAC&#8217;s message only achieves two things: 1) Further restrict the rights of mental health consumers and 2) Promote the<br />
misguided belief that persons with a mental illness are inherently violent. This is a belief that has increased over the years despite a<br />
RAND study that mental health consumers are no more violent then non-consumers and other studies which have shown the people with a mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence then<br />
perpetrators of it.</p>
<p>Regardless, the press seems to love focusing on violent acts committed by persons with a mental illness. One need only search on the phrase<br />
&#8220;mental illness&#8221; on google news, sort by date, and read what is returned.</p>
<p>Regrettably, violence is the trump card of mental illness. The notion of millions of &#8220;crazies&#8221; running through the streets is catchy but not reality. I have plenty of peers who are disabled by a mental illness and on the whole they are tractable, compliant, and meek. After all, these are considered virtues among too many mental health professionals and the programs they operate. The worst thing a consumer can do is &#8220;act-out&#8221; (often simply asserting oneself or even gesticulation) which is a term only used to describe the behavior of children and adults with a mental illness.</p>
<p>I drove a guy home this week who was clearly suffering from schizophrenia. He&#8217;s on plenty of medication including injectable Haldol (a.k.a. polypharmacy). He told me that when the police come to pick him (a.k.a. outreach) he always resists. Now everyone knows resisting the police is frankly stupid but this is his M.O. They always prevail; he always goes to the hospital but his actions are hardly emblematic of consumers as a whole. His behavior might be understandable, not justifiable, to anyone who has spent time in a psychiatric hospital where care might be limited to the therapeutic milieu, cold turkey smoking cessation, medication, and perhaps a daily session of bingo for ice cream (a.k.a. comprehensive recovery oriented care in accordance with best practices using the team approach.)</p>
<p>I know another consumer who thinks about stopping her medication. To the best of my knowledge she has never committed a violent act on or off her<br />
medication. Medication simply did not provide her with entry to the life portrayed by pharmaceutical companies. She has every right to feel depressed (a.k.a. a sub-optimal functional and symptomatic outcome.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that medication can&#8217;t help. In some cases inspiring stores ensue but no matter how you cut it if the high point of your life is going to the drop-in center or the day program and you have<br />
never been to a party other than one with really large bottles of generic soda and generic potato chips or you have been received the &#8220;Prophecy of Doom,&#8221; too sick for too long to get any better. No amount of medication is going to hug you when you are cold, encourage you when you feel absolutely hopeless, or befriend you when you are all alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Gena</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Gena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 03:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-125</guid>
		<description>The unfortunate thing about medicine is that no one knows how you might react to it.  when I was on Risperdal (I called them razor dolls), it made me feel worse. But I was in frequent contact with good doctors who listened and tried something else. It took years.

But for people who are just put through the system because of something they did or not, they get put on some kind of med that may help or make them feel worse. But they are just discharged as if that solves the problem. It doesn&#039;t even come close.

People who are mentally ill need intervention, but it can&#039;t stop at a prescription. It requires a commitment from the health professional to make sure that things are actually better. Who would stay on something that made them feel even worse.

I don&#039;t know. Something&#039;s gotta change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The unfortunate thing about medicine is that no one knows how you might react to it.  when I was on Risperdal (I called them razor dolls), it made me feel worse. But I was in frequent contact with good doctors who listened and tried something else. It took years.</p>
<p>But for people who are just put through the system because of something they did or not, they get put on some kind of med that may help or make them feel worse. But they are just discharged as if that solves the problem. It doesn&#8217;t even come close.</p>
<p>People who are mentally ill need intervention, but it can&#8217;t stop at a prescription. It requires a commitment from the health professional to make sure that things are actually better. Who would stay on something that made them feel even worse.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know. Something&#8217;s gotta change.</p>
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		<title>By: patricia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>patricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-124</guid>
		<description>This is one of the most biased articles I have ever read. First, these laws have many many due process protections, including requirements that a dctor testify and that the person who is the subject of te hearing have a legal representative. Second, they are only meant to help the SMALL group of people with the most severe mental illnesses who have a history of hospitalization and about 9 other restrictions. Third, the actual research and data shows that these laws work extremely well. (Look at the website of the NY Office of Mental Health.) FYI, the people they would most help will not be able to join the conversation here - they are psychotic and lost to homelessness or prison. The people from Mindfreedom should support these laws because they actually FREE people from psychosis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the most biased articles I have ever read. First, these laws have many many due process protections, including requirements that a dctor testify and that the person who is the subject of te hearing have a legal representative. Second, they are only meant to help the SMALL group of people with the most severe mental illnesses who have a history of hospitalization and about 9 other restrictions. Third, the actual research and data shows that these laws work extremely well. (Look at the website of the NY Office of Mental Health.) FYI, the people they would most help will not be able to join the conversation here &#8211; they are psychotic and lost to homelessness or prison. The people from Mindfreedom should support these laws because they actually FREE people from psychosis.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Dawdy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/trouble/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Dawdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trouble.pwblogs.com/2006/02/01/wall-street-journal-article/#comment-123</guid>
		<description>you are right. this is important. and my thoughts are that this practice can verge on outright discrimination. among other problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you are right. this is important. and my thoughts are that this practice can verge on outright discrimination. among other problems.</p>
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