News from the U.K.: What does not kill you makes you stronger

Wendi Says:

What a relief! All this time I thought I had just been suffering miserably for no reason. Amazing how wrong you can be. What if it does kill you, then not so strong, I’m guessing, right?

Sandy Says:

Wasn’t sure how to send an email to you but wanted to make sure you saw this article. Not as definitive as they first make it sound.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23337532/

It’s about a blood test for BP disorder.

Toni Nathan Says:

Depression gives you time and opportunity to think about inside your mind and yourself. The people with depression are likely to give consideration about anything seriously although mental illness could be time consuming and financial cost to patients the hard way.

Toni Nathan Says:

Ms.Spikol

I have some questions about the picture. Is this Munch, painted by Norway’s aritist? Patheologically, he must have been suffering schizophrenia or something, right? When he was child, his father beat the shit out of him so many times.His childhood was filled with fear, death of his mother and older sister who liked Munch, her younger brother.

Joe Says:

It troubles me that anyone let alone a psychiatrist would assert that short-term depression confers benefits on individuals when so many of us experience long term depression. While depression as with other illnesses may make people more empathetic to suggest that benefits accrue to those who may be experiencing hopelessness and despair goes beyond the pale. Given that so many individuals relapse into depression or find that what is hoped to be short-term episode becomes a life long ordeal, I hope this view is not widely adopted.

It is a dangerous trip to find benefit in human suffering in any form. I remember a therapist once shared his belief that OCD conferred benefits on ….. cavemen. He noted that if I were a caveman, I would be valued as the most vigilant caveman. Little comfort in that I was not a caveman and the OCD had led to comorbid depression. (Note to self: search monster.com for caveman openings.)

I also call into question the contention that depression leads to realistic outlooks. Those who have lost weekends under the covers might well dispute this when simply getting out of bed may be perceived as an accomplishment of heroic proportions which it might very well be. This is definitely not the time to make realistic choices which give due consideration to ones abilities, options, goals, etc. [Regrettably, pseudo-realism is often foisted on persons suffering from depression from the very psychiatrist or therapist persons they've reached out to: "Since you suffer from depression (pick one: you won't, you can't, you'll never) be able to (fill in anything.). Hardly fodder for relieving the hopelessness and despair.]

Let’s hope this book review doesn’t reflect the author’s position in its entirety, i.e. depression makes you stronger. Given that United States monthly sales of anti-depressants have more than doubled in the past five years, we can safely assume that most persons would gladly trade the the claimed strength achieved through the “Black Dog” for the true comfort of simply not feeling so bad.

Jonathan Schnapp Says:

Personally, I’m sick of all the articles that spin depression into something positive.

It reminds me of that cliche where anything difficult, any negative situation is ultimately good because it builds “character.” Sure, I get what the authors mean—I’ve definitely learned a great dealthrough my own depression. But I’ve also learned a lot just from just plain being alive. I’ve learned a lot from getting fired from previous jobs, going through breakups, struggling with school, seeing a close someone die from cancer. I’ve learned lessons from all these events which, though upsetting, painful, and sad, never triggered a depressive episode and were never affected by a concurrent one.

I guess ultimately what I’m trying to suggest is that, since much of life is full of painful, unpleasant events, I’m not sure why this one needs to be defended or justified.

—Jon

PS— I’m not buying any argument of “reducing stigma” here because if “[depression] can give people an increased resilience to cope with life’s challenges,” then that implies that the afflicted must’ve been weak to succumb to it.

stan Says:

Dearest Liz:
Not much new here really! The same old “what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger”. Reminds of another old adage “why don’t you just snap out of it” type of statement and thinking. There is little doubt that depression, hypo-manic, and manic states can put us in a very different place emotionally (the expanded or under inflated emotional balloon/rainbow that those of us with mood disorders experience through are protracted prospective at a core feeling capacity) which may or may not allow us to express our innate creativity. But I don’t think I would go out on that fragile tree limb and say depression is necessary positive in our social development. I know with little qualm, I sure wasn’t very creative or added much of anything to society or myself when I spend a month curled up on the floor despondent and in a psychotic state. Yet the experience was a great weight loss program {laughing}! But not one I would advise anyone to follow. Of course all goodness/right/moral has to have something to balance itself against on the other end of the spectrum. But in general, I would take a few bad mood days over a depressive episode every single time.
Now this book uses a few examples of famous writers that created wonderful and insightful work while going through some degree of a depressive episode “The book describes the creativity of those who have experienced dark periods of depression, such as John Stuart Mill and Winston Churchill. Aristotle saw it as a state of immense moral and spiritual value because of the insights it could bring.” Yet going through several severe bouts of depression, I can guarantee you there was not much creative ability associated with those times in my life. I would say that after the many roller coaster rides I have experienced with bipolar disorder it has made me much more sensitive, increased my empathy, and allowed me to understand the suffering of others at a much deeper and substantive level. I would not say it has changed my creative and expressive abilities at a measurable extent in reality. I’m not making any arguments that depression hasn’t been with mankind since we developed social norms and abilities. Suffering in itself is part of the human condition. But to say it’s a necessary positive force in the advancement of our personal development and social advancement maybe taking it to an unrealistic Interpretation of the true lived experience. Anywise, that’s my take on this article! It’s overly simplified and draws conclusions from a limited and skewed prospective and data pool for me to digest as palatable, or as any confirmed factual foundation.
Yours truly:
Stan

Sherry Says:

I’m genuinely glad if anyone who’s had trouble with depression finds this sort of thinking a comfort or if it makes them feel less isolated. Different strokes for different folks.

But, personally, I want to throw up when people start extolling the positive side of depression. I am a highly creative person who can’t create anything when the molasses of depression invades my mind.

I have a friend in Ireland who is convinced I’m a good writer because of my depression. No matter how many times I explain it, she can’t seem to understand that when I’m depressed I’m unable to write a grocery list.

For me, there really is NO “up” side to depression. To say otherwise is to twist my reality into something it’s not.

Sherry
PS: Child abuse does not cause schizophrenia. It does, however, often cause PTSD and dissociative disorders. Munch was an interesting person. Having gone to an exhibition of his work, plus read a bio of him, he seemed to really dislike women quite a lot.

IB Bill Says:

I suffered long-term depression for years that required two hospitalizations, one in 1984 and one in 1996. I was probably depressed on and off from 1978 until 1996.

Strangely enough, I don’t know what happened, but I snapped out of it. I was on Prozac, and I went to a group of charismatic Christian meetings, and I started a job that I liked, and all of a sudden after the meetings I had a very severe depressive episode.

I went back to the doctor, and he told me that Prozac sometimes has the opposite effect. He took me off the meds, my depression lifted and never came back. I have no idea what happened.

I’m not always happy, and sometimes I pretty miserable, but I don’t have that awful black-hole sense that dogged my life. Now, I can usually snap myself out of it through cognitive therapy — that is, I stop the negative thoughts and my mood lifts.

I think (maybe) the answer isn’t the same for everyone. For me, the combination of a good paycheck, a happy job, and improved cognitive thinking worked. Thank God.

Best of luck to those still suffering. There is hope.

Kent Says:

I think IB Bill’s statement about the combination of a good paycheck and a happy job helping to relieve depression might actually apply to a lot of people. If only those things were easier to come by – then the demand for medications might be a lot less. One problem seems to be that noone can make a gargantuan amount of money by providing decent jobs that come with a good paycheck (at least it’s not common that anyone makes a huge amount of money doing that nowadays), and current public policy seems to usually favor only those things that provide ways for a lucky few to make gargantuan amounts of money.

Stopping negative thoughts is easier to do, I think, when a person has something positive and hopeful happening in their daily lives. While it’s probably true that many people (including myself) may occasionally be handicapped by their state of mind in finding or keeping potentially fulfilling jobs, I think the lack of that kind of employment might be a cause of depression at least as often as it is an effect. I believe that if the national priorities ever change to favor more decent, adequately paying jobs over the accumulation of unimaginable amounts of wealth for an elite few, then America’s so-called “epidemic of depression” might abate a little bit.