Responding to the ECT Discussion
Sue Clark-Wittenberg, who I mentioned yesterday, wrote in and had this to say:
Hi Liz, I am Sue Clark-Wittenberg the woman you’re writing about in Canada. Electroshock always causes brain damage according to Dr. Harold Sackeim. He did an ECT study in 2007. Dr. Peter R. Breggin wrote an article called
“Disturbing News for Patients and Shock Doctors” see www.breggin.com. His section called “blogs” and see this article. Also Dr. Breggin wrote a book called Electroshock: Its Brain Disabling Effects. See Leonard Roy Frank’s quotationary at endofshock.comGoogle “Dr John Friedberg Testimony” a neurologist who talks about damage to the brain by ECT.
I know what I am talking about.
See other ECT websites:
breggin.com
banshock.org
capa.oise.utoronto.ca
icbe.wordpress.com
capacanada.wordpress.com
ect.org
idiom.com/~drjohn/ect1.html
mindfreedom.org
Thanks, Sue, for writing in, and welcome to the site. I am familiar with the Sackheim study, Breggin’s work and Friedberg’s testimony, as are most of us who oppose the use of ECT. I’ve written extensively about the subject, and have always quoted those sources in the past. It’s just … I’d be grateful to hear from other voices, as these are the ones that always get cited. I will check out the websites that I’m not familiar with, as well.
TTWS reader Jim Quinn wrote in to say the following:
My mother and brother have both had ECT, repeatedly. It repeatedly rescued them from very severe psychosis. My mom had it back in the bad old days, when they used more current and no drugs. After a treatment in the 1990s, she reported that the procedure was much, much, MUCH improved.
When you look at the horrible side effects of the available drugs, it seems to me that ECT looks like a pretty good option – especially when the drugs just don’t work.
I think much of the opposition to ECT is based on ignorance and hysteria; people wouldn’t be so fearful of it if the opposition was more reasoned. Until we get much better drugs, we should be grateful that ECT is available to those who need it.
But Mary Maddock, a shock survivor from Ireland, says:
Even if a small percentage of people believe electro shock may do them good there are many, many others who believe their lives have been destroyed by electro shock. While it is still used as a from of ‘help’ many people will receive it as a ‘treatment’ even when they know it harms them. The easy profitable option such as electro shock and drugs will be used more and more for psycho/social difficulties when most people need other forms of support.
Every person in a civilized world should have their basic needs: shelter, good food, a helpful job, love and companionship, fun, music, joy etc in their lives. We should be promoting these and doing our best to provide these for each other and then no one would have to resort to brain damaging ‘helps’ like electro shock.
For those who are new to this site, this is exactly what I love about having a mental health blog — generating discussions like this one with opposing points of view. Sometimes I stick my nose in and say what I think and sometimes I just moderate. The comments must first be “approved” because otherwise Viagra would post 100 comments a day, none of the relevant.
Keep ‘em comin’, and I’ll try to post them as soon as I get a free moment. Sorry if there’s a delay.
liz | 2:01 PM | Uncategorized
ECT didn’t exactly ruin my life, but it didn’t help it either. It did scramble a good portion of my short term memory…so much so that I remember very little of my daughter’s wedding. I remember walking her down the aisle. That’s all. So far, the ‘ECT-Bad’ group is winning in this poll.
Drew
Dear Liz,
I take objection to Ms. Sue Clark-Wittenberg’s statement:
“Electroshock always causes brain damage according to Dr. Harold Sackeim.”
Kindly ask her to cite specifically where Dr. Sackeim made that statement. The statement seems to me to be more attributable to the likes of Dr. Breggin.
If ECT causes brain damage my spouse’s MRI through the years would refute that theory.
While I too am not enthralled with the use of ECT it has almost always quickly abated my spouse’s downward spiral so that over the past 4 decades and especially these past 8 years or so we count her depressive episodes in days and her wellness in years.
I am also strongly opposed to those such as Ms. Clark-Wittenberg and Mr. David Oaks and anyone who would deny an informed patients right to any treatment option and choice knowing as I do that this therapy has benefited my spouse and other patients.
Lord help us all if these kinds of folks win out. Not only will this treatment not be available but think of all the other drugs and therapies where folks like these similarly advocate the banning of treatments; breakout the stone tools its back to trepanning of the skull.
Reasoning, a far better approach than reaction in my opinion adds to which we also have to consider the truth and that’s another interesting subject; isn’t it?
Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com
ECT rescued me many years ago right after my breakdown when the drugs didn’t work. After about 12 ECTs I got much better. After each ECT I woke up a different person. I felt well. And good. Then the drugs started working and I haven’t had problems with the drugs not working since. Sure, it’s been hard to find the right combination of drugs and it has changed over the years. But ECT is a very good “last resort” option when nothing else works. The Scientologists are trying very hard to take away ECT as an option for us. I can tell you it worked for me when nothing else would.
It seems to me that ECT is blamed for things it has no connection to. “ECT ruined my life.” Really? How? I mean, ECT is only given to people with serious mental illness. Serious mental illness ruins lives. How in the world can someone claim they know that some problem stems from ECT instead of the underlying illness?
My younger brother, who is 49, is constantly blaming ECT for memory problems. He says he is growing increasingly forgetful, and sometimes can’t remember why he entered a room.
I have the very same problems, and I’ve never had ECT. I think my brother is simply having the same kind of aging symptoms as anyone else. It’s impossible to tell, which is my point.
By the way. Peter Breggin is a quack. You can’t talk someone out of mental illness anymore than you can talk them out of hypertension or diabetes. When are people going to accept the truth – really accept it – that mental illness is a disease? It’s waaaay overdue.
I completed a course of 10 ECT treatments one month ago. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder five years ago, and have been on medication after medication. At the end of five years I was living most of my life in bed. I was extremely depressed, anxious, and a terror to be around.
After a month of mostly stable behavior and a substantial improvement in mood, I feel like I made the right choice. As I’m writing this, I can honestly say that I feel ok most of the time, and sometimes I even feel good. I’m still medicated (Tamoxifen and Seroquel) but at relatively low doses. Previously, I’ve fallen apart whenever my doctor has tried to get me off of antidepressants. I’ve been off my MAOI for two months – I never would have thought that possible.
I have experienced memory loss, but not to the extent that it’s hindered me in any way. I couldn’t tell you much about what I did while I was going through ECT, and my memory is pretty fuzzy regarding the months leading up to treatments. Considering how crappy my life was, I don’t count this as much of a loss. During ECT and the week or two afterwards, I was constantly forgetting the most basic things: address, directions, books I had just read. But each day, more and more memories came back. I still have fuzzy moments, but the important stuff is still there.
I’ve been dealing with this bitch of an illness long enough to know not to take my current state for granted. But right now, I’m able to go outside, read a book, prepare a meal. Hell – I’ve been exercising! For the first time in ages, I don’t have to live with mountains of pills that barely work and the side effects that come with them. I have some hope.
I had ECT’s on three occasions in the early 90s. At the time I could have cared less what the doctors wanted to do to me.
I remember some of it, mostly I remember liking being knocked out, I looked forward to the counting backwards, I was in so much pain it was a relief to be knocked out. I remember bad headaches and body aches. Looking back on it I think it saved my life. I’ve come to the conclusion that it worked because I couldn’t maintain a thought positive or negative for more than a few seconds during the weeks that I was getting them and that I just couldn’t remember a whole lot of anything. I do remember about a month after I was released they had me come back to the hospital ( a major university) they had me do some tests to see how my memory was and the doctor said “your doing really well, your score is one of the highest I’ve seen”. When I left it took me about an hour to find my car because I had forgot where the hell I parked in the ramp.
I would be interested in hearing more about how you think others see you and react to you knowing that you have BP.
My experience has been that it’s not terribly benefical to tell people about my mental illness.
I do recall one time when it would have helped me score more points when applying for a state job, but who would have thought you would get an extra 100 points for having a disability. I read about it on line months after the interview.
I enjoy reading your blog and watching your utube videos.
Liz, here is a vital source that you should examine. You might even contact the authors to discuss their study.
Date: 2007. Author: Jacquelyn Blackstone, Michael G. Pinette, Camille Santarpio, Joseph R. Wax. Web page: “Electroconvulsive Therapy in Pregnancy.” Web site: “Obstetrics & Gynecology.” Institution: American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. Date of access: February 9, 2008. Web address: http://greenjournal.org/cgi/content/short/110/2/465. Synopsis: In 2007, researchers of the Division of Maternal–Fetal Medicine, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Maine Medical Center published the case report “Electroconvulsive Therapy in Pregnancy” in periodical “Obstetrics & Gynecology.” The report was about a study as to whether ECT is safe during pregnancy. The authors reported that “A primigravida [or woman in her first pregnancy] underwent multiple electroconvulsive treatments during pregnancy for the diagnosis of major depression. The infant was subsequently born with multiple deep interhemispheric infarcts [or local necrosis between the cerebral hemispheres]“. In conclusion, the authors stated “Despite reassuring statements regarding the safety of electroconvulsive therapy, this case report and a review of the literature suggests that electroconvulsive therapy during pregnancy should be performed with caution”.
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