Mental Health Court, Round Three
Okay, below I issued a response to a general assertion about probation and parole. But to get Philly-specific, this idea is far from scary for offenders. In fact, it’s already in use, in a sense. From the Inky article:
One reason the Mental Health Court concept was supported by such diverse parties as prosecutor Abraham and Chief Public Defender Ellen T. Greenlee is that pieces of it have been used for at least two years.
Since 2007, criminal defendants with mental illnesses have had their cases assigned to a single Municipal Court judge who works with prosecution and defense lawyers and court-appointed mental-health experts to ensure those awaiting trial get treatment.
The Mental Health Court extends the concept post-prison.
Abraham said 500 nonviolent defendants had gone through the predecessor program since 2007 and “no one has been a recidivist. That’s a very enviable record.”
It certainly is. Also:
A $60,000 state grant will underwrite start-up costs, but personnel will be drawn from existing probation and mental-health-services agencies.
Woods-Skipper said the current staff could handle about 70 people before personnel would have to be added.
Also, we have to keep in mind that the emphasis of this pilot program is re-entry, i.e., reintegration with the community. This is something Philly hasn’t been great at, but is trying all the time to improve upon .
liz | 11:05 AM | criminal justice system
The problem here is you are mixing up problems with the criminal justice system with the label mentally ill. So many things that are illegal shouldn’t be and the things that we call “mental illness” are really socio economic problems. Is the person who steals food, assuming he exists as you do here, because he thinks the food he’s taking was paid for by the guy driving the spaceship entitled to less punishment than the guy who steals food knowing he’s stealing because there are no jobs and his children are hungry? Hell no! But the person busted for stealing food for is family is thus forced to lie and pretend to be mentally ill when the real criminal is a society that makes food and jobs unavailable. Then there’s this, we really need prison reform. The conditions inside of prisons are almost as bad as those in psychiatric hospitals. These mental health programs always cause harm and take civil rights though they’re generally well intentioned.
“The conditions inside of prisons are almost as bad as those in psychiatric hospitals.” — Sally
Well “Hi to you once again Sally!” Same old Sally and the “Mini me” rhetoric telling us the way it is unequivocally. Why don’t you tell us about your personal experiences inside of prisons? I’ll be better able to understand your position or that of your experiences in psychiatric hospitals.
Because unlike you I cannot relate first hand to prisons but first hand I am able to discuss psychiatric hospitals both in New York and Florida as a support person and caregiver to Joyce, my spouse. In each of her hospitalizations over some 4 decades she has always been respectfully well treated, nourished and cared for and most importantly, stabilized.
“These mental health programs always cause harm and take civil rights though they’re generally well intentioned.” — Sally
Hmmm…what a statement! Politely I’ll simply say I don’t know from which end you’re speaking but in my personal opinion and from my knowledge at some point you might consider engaging some functioning neurons simply because without the help and assistance from her psychiatrists, treatment regimens and hospitalizations when needed; she wouldn’t be here today enjoying a reasonable quality of life. Whether an individual lives or dies strikes me as less important to you so long as your vitriol is spread across these various forums. I might also mention in almost every case these various facilities have also done everything possible to insure Joyce’s civil rights are not violated. Add to which as her health care advocate I too insured that she was extremely well taken care of.
It may also be disturbing to you to note that I refer to my spouse Joyce as Joyce. She’s not a label as you and others of the “Mini me” may think of yourselves. She’s never been a label in any and all of our collaborations with any of her psychiatric health care professionals. Joyce is an individual who unfortunately through absolutely no fault of her own exhibited and experienced extremely severe symptoms and periods of unrelenting depression through the years. And despite all your obvious unknowing rhetoric and with the help of these physicians she has been almost continuously depression free these past 9 years without psychotropic medications for extended periods of time. Oh by the way we still can’t relate, in Joyce’s case history, to any of your persistent rhetoric about nurturing, environment, abuse or unusual stressful events etc as causation for her illness simply because there are none contrary to your authoritarian belief system.
Maybe so in your case history but not so in Joyce’s
By the way, I do hope you’re doing well and if you have a chance why don’t you also share your expertise and experiences in parenting or better yet parenting a youngster exhibiting what appear to be serious mood disturbances.
Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com
When the psychiatric hospitals and doctors speak to the family and listen the patients do better – if they don’t listen to the family then the patient does worse and it makes it look like the psychiatric hospital was the problem, when in fact it is the HIPPAA laws they hide behind. And really, is there any way to get the truth out of a patient that is delusional ??
Confidentiality regarding names is understood when one is writing about someone else. Outside the entry buzzer to a very well respected psychiatric unit is a small plaque that explains that in a survey of inpatients it was found that the majority would rather have people believe they were jailed for the weeks they were on the unit than to know where they actually were.
Gail, the problem with confidentiality regarding names is this, once you are in a psych hospital, no one can find you. Family Member, under HIPPA your family member can talk about you to the staff of a psych hospital they just can’t make decisions about your treatment unless you’ve been declared incompetent and a relative is your guardian. At least if you’ve committed a crime you get a phone call and where you are is a matter of public record. Generally in psych hosptials, you just disappear and can only contact the outside world if the pshrinks allow it.
HIPPA is bad because under HIPPA a psych history always stays with the patient and of course that leads to increase in insurance rates, denial of insurance and sub standard treatment for actual medical problems.
Dear Sally,
It is always a pleasure to read your thoughts and especially so your generalizations. It gives me an opportunity to think about what you offer up and often to refute your generalizations naturally from my real life experiences and knowledge and on one issue based upon meetings with legal counsel.
“Gail, the problem with confidentiality regarding names is this, once you are in a psych hospital, no one can find you. Family Member, under HIPPA your family member can talk about you to the staff of a psych hospital they just can’t make decisions about your treatment unless you’ve been declared incompetent and a relative is your guardian. At least if you’ve committed a crime you get a phone call and where you are is a matter of public record. Generally in psych hosptials, you just disappear and can only contact the outside world if the pshrinks allow it.
HIPPA is bad because under HIPPA a psych history always stays with the patient and of course that leads to increase in insurance rates, denial of insurance and sub standard treatment for actual medical problems.” — Sally
Let me now address some of your generalizations:
As Joyce’s spouse through more than 4 decades and through all her hospitalizations I have known exactly where Joyce was hospitalized. So did family and friends as they also always had access to call Joyce. With the advent of HIPPA, in the interests of protecting the patient and his/her privacy rights, things have been made a little more cumbersome. I’ll add after speaking to nursing staff and other associated professionals some of the regulations have been a pain in the butt and have caused substantial extra paperwork as well as occasional delayed treatment.
But then again after reading much of your writings through the year’s I have found health care are concerned with protecting patient rights not only in psych units but throughout most all medical care which I’ve got to believe is important to your thoughts on maintaining one’s privacy.
In each of Joyce’s hospitalizations she’s always had access to a telephone to make out going unrestricted calls although I should further qualify that by stating I believe local calls only.
Furthermore, the use of the telephone had absolutely nothing to do with her psychiatrist making any decision(s).
Contrary to your statement “…your family member can talk about you to the staff of a psych hospital they just can’t make decisions about your treatment unless you’ve been declared incompetent and a relative is your guardian” and as residents of the State of Florida I am Joyce’s legally designated Health Care Advocate as well as Durable Power of Attorney. I am empowered to make medical decisions, if necessary, on behalf of Joyce without adjudication of one’s competency. Although without realizing it you’ve brought a very interesting subject without really knowing it. I’ve learned through legal counsel and I’ll stick to the State of Florida that having an individual declared mentally incompetent is costly and does require a judge to adjudicate the request which is not easily given. Once again individual rights are highly protected at least in Broward County. From the standpoint of the patient and family member or loved one’s should this route be taken and incompetence declared the state becomes an interested party and oversees all actions. Not a good idea.
As an aside I was advised this route is one to “generally” avoid.
Although in my opinion those patients having loving and caring spouses and/or family members etc should consider establishing a designated Health Care Advocate as well as a Will etc and especially Medical Directives so that a Terri Schiavo fiasco does not ensue and one’s wishes are invalidated.
Sally, maybe you ought to consider taking a survey to find out how many of your fellow message board participants have even considered such directives and/or have such documents in place?
Committing crimes and telephone calls I’ll yield to your experiences and knowledge of the subject.
I don’t know anything under HIPPA as it relates to any diagnosis staying with a patient so I’ll yield to you on that one but with the advent of computers there are medical information houses that do share information between the various health insurance companies. Contrary to your statement, once again, Joyce’s health insurance rates were not individually increased.
Joyce was not denied life insurance. She was denied long-term home care insurance.
Contrary to your last statement Joyce has never received, in my opinion, “sub standard treatment for actual medical problems”.
So what I’m left with is my facts through the years have considerably as well as substantially differed from your “Generally” and/or generalizations.
As always I wish you wellness along with those who read my commentary.
Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com
Herb, I’ve been involuntarily forced into psych-hospitals several times. I don’t know where to begin with your posts. What do alternative causes to mental illness have to do with authoritarian belief systems? Would not saying there is one cause–biological?–be more authoritarian as it admits no alternative. Granted you do not say (authoritativly, summarily) the cause, only what did not cause Joyce’s depression. Though, I’ll admit, stating the cause could prove quite difficult as there is no objective test to do so. Also, statements like “through no fault of your own,” “you can’t help it” take for granted you “have” it. Insidious RHETORICAL devices to get “patients” to “comply” with prescribed treatment. Another such device is the “If you had diabetes…” shtick.
Also my experience has been that speaking out against treatment in general is considered symptomatic or being difficult (also a disruption and harming other patients progress) and prolongs such treatment. Questioning the diagnosis or cause of diagnosis and therefore the resulting treatment is viewed as denial and result in futher hospitalization and therefore prolongs treatment. Questioning the authority of those making the diagnosis or even the authority of those “loved ones” who are complicit in your situation is viewed as paranoia, being difficult, non compliance, etc. and prolongs such treatment. The only way to “escape” through the system to play the game and accept everything. Once having escaped any doing of the above is viewed as “relapse.”
Prison life to psych-hospital life? I know this may be obvious but haven’t you all read or watched the movie of ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO’S where McMurphy is AT FIRST thrilled with his new situation. This would also be an example, perhaps, of a “false positive” case scenario: McMurphy only PRETENDS to mentally ill to get out of prison work. False positive is possible again because of there being NO objective test for a biological diagnosis.
From the other side Mental Health patients don’t desire to go into prison but to be granted the same rights as prisoners, especially on the court level.
I don’t think the argument has much to do with comparing conditions inside prison with inside psychiatric hospitals(except of course where applicable). Mental health patients invoke the comparison to point out they lack rights prisoners have without having broken the law (unless you consider the dsm criteria to be law enforable). The motives behind and implications of the authorities that be (state, psychiatric, pharmaceuticals) equating prisoners and mental health patients shoud be questioned. Drugging prisoners because their “really” mentally ill? Will said prisoners be allowed into hospitals if they refuse drugs in favor of therapy? No of course not. Just because they broke the law “under the influence” of mental illness does not mean that mental illness should be outlawed.
Are mental patients who have not broken then law then viewed as time bombs who will break the law left unchecked. Is that the definition of the ill defined “danger to self and others.” Thought police!
(We are PA residents.)
Act 194 allows a “Competent” patient to appoint an agent. Act 169 allows family members/individuals (as outlined in the act) to become an agent for someone who has been declared incompetent–without having to go through the long court process.
Our problem arose when a rather large hospital used HIPPA (they denied having a signed form) to hide behind, denied basic rights, then denied the rights/protection provided by act 194. HIPPA is to protect the patient, not to gag the family members fighting for patient rights. It is my opinion that my loved one received substandard treatment and basic rights violations. (Yes, I am/will pursue this with every action available to me).
Q: When does substandard become criminal?
I’m happy to hear some have had only good experiences–we did not. Not all facilities have an atmospheres that promote a kind staff for the patient’s healthy recovery. Facilities with treatment provided by cruel and uneducated staff still exist.
A good facility should have good policies, good staff, good attitudes…I believe the attitude of a staff starts with the doctors & head nurses. They dictate what behavior/attitudes are acceptable and unacceptable towards patients and families. We eventually found the “fantastic” atmosphere/staff once we were able to remove my loved one from a horrible “ward” and into a wonderful mental health hospital. I believe the new hospital prevented any additional injuries to my loved one and facilitated a recovery, but what is the fate of the others we left behind?
To those with loved ones struggling…be strong, fight for the rights of your family member, research, BE STRONG. You are the best advocate for you loved one!
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