This Is So Funny! Max Fink Posted a Comment

herb Says:

Hi Liz,

I’d first like to wish you and yours and your readership a Happy Chanukah, Merry Christmas and a Healthy, Happy, Peaceful and Prosperous New Year. I’d also like to state that I’m happy to see that you’re blogging hiatus for the moment is over.

Unlike you I find nothing funny about ECT or the fact that Dr. Fink or anyone posted their comment to the Public Docket relating to Electroconvulsive Therapy Device.

This matter and all comments are certainly serious to my way of thinking as is indicative by some of the comments made to your previous blog posting.

I commented both to the Public Docket and to Dr. Grohol’s forum.

I certainly am in favor of minimum standards, requirements and inspections for all medical equipment including that utilized for ECT. I am also in favor studies to determine safety and efficacy of all treatments and therapies as well as a reasonably educated patient to make informed and un-coerced medical decisions in collaboration with ones trusted, caring, knowledgeable and licensed health care practitioner(s).

I am empathetic and understanding to those who have suffered side-effects and lack of efficacy from ECT or for that matter from any treatment or therapy but I am also realistic and knowledgeable to know others have benefited without similar side-effects or consequences and that all too often one hears more from those who are still suffering on forums such as these while those others achieve a reasonable degree of wellness and continue on with their lives.

So as I have done for more than four decades in my capacity as a spouse, support person and health care advocate for my loved one; I endorse patient and/or support person education while encouraging hope and persistence.

Incidentally, ECT has proven a quick and effective treatment option on those occasions and when needed to quickly abort my spouse’s suicidal ideations with minimum to no side-effects.

As always, I wish you wellness and welcome back and thanks for stirring the pot once again.

Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com

Dave Says:

Herb, having had ECT suggested as a solution for me, I’m interested in this topic and hearing what you and Liz and anybody else has to say. But please lighten up. There’s funny!!! and then there’s “funny”. I’m guessing Liz was using the latter form. It’s also known as sarcasm. Liz, welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win. Dave

herb Says:

Hi Dave,

Okay, I’ll agree with you there’s funny…and then there’s funny. Since I can’t speak for either of you that are Liz, you or anyone for that matter I can only express my opinion as to what I read and quite frankly I don’t find ECT to be humorous subject matter. Although, I do appreciate Liz’s writing and sense of humor it does not preclude that I have to agree with her or laugh about her observation in this instance.

Hmmm…sarcasm…wow I can’t count the number of times I been accused by some of her readership of that very same writing form but the fact remains and in my opinion one often obtains a distorted negative viewpoint of ECT, psychotropic medications, psychiatry, psychiatric institutions etc from many blogs and message forum commentary simply because those who do achieve some degree of wellness go on to live their lives not by habituating message forums.

I’ll further express my opinion in that I consider ECT and other therapies as potential treatment options and/or alternatives to achieve some degree of control, stability and long-term remission and far from any potential “solution” to serious chronic and recurrent mood disorders which are extremely difficult to overcome.

My observations, experiences, research, collaborations, knowledge and opinions in the capacity of a support person and caregiver to my spouse often go against the grain and/or dogma that permeate many Internet forums relating to mood disorders.

While on the subject of ECT being suggested to you I would certainly encourage your being reasonably educated in the subject matter as well as other alternatives while also being made aware there are several treatment options within ECT to also consider hopefully lessening the often spoken about potential side-effects of memory and cognitive impairment.

Whatever your decision I wish you wellness.

Warmly,
Herb
VNSdepression.com

Tess Says:

Liz is F+U+N+N+Y. ECT is not. If you see pics of Hemingway before and after ECT, like I do, as an artist, u see a man with a drained soul.

Good for those who were able to recover from a very severe treatment.

Dave Says:

Thank God my current med is doing the trick and I’m not looking at other options. I had heard anecdotal evidence that ECT was both effective and not effective. Leaving that aside, yes, Liz is funny and I’m pretty sure she was highlighting this Mr. Fink’s (the five year old boy living in me thinks Mr. Fink’s name is hilarious) rather blatant monetary interest in ECT. What we all need is cold hard objective assessments of any procedure or medication. Given Liz’s history with ECT, it’s hard to believe she would find it a laughing matter.

Linda Andre Says:

Did you notice he got it wrong? He actually said “the call for reclassification should be ignored”—I mean, that’s right, but not what he meant to say. He doesn’t even know what class ECT is in. It’s in Class III, and funnily enough Max was a main mover and shaker in favor of reclassification all through the 1980s and 90s! Oh well, once you get old perhaps your brain resembles that of a 25 year old who’s had shock.

Naomi Says:

The fact that Max Fink may be a schlub doesn’t change the fact that for some people, ECT may be necessary as a last resort. To use Hemingway as an example is scare mongering. I doubt you have the expertise to determine whether it was the late stages of his illness or ECT that “drained his soul.” Not to mention, ECT has been refined since his death, and anesthesia is now used. Many people I have known upon whom it has been used have had nothing but praise for it, and said it saved their lives. Some have felt it was terrible. Can you name a medication where this has not also been the case? A few people I know have been left with severe memory issues, which I agree is a problem. But even a few of them have said it was worth it.

I do not know Liz’s experience with ECT, and she may completely disagree with me, but to imply that there is absolutely no place for ECT in psychiatric treatment is ridiculous.

Naomi Says:

Oops, I can see Liz posted about her run in with ECT below. The problem with reading a blog from top to bottom….